The True ROI of Digital Adoption with WalkMe's Maor Ezer

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This is a podcast episode titled, The True ROI of Digital Adoption with WalkMe's Maor Ezer. The summary for this episode is: <p>There is plenty of content out there about optimizing the customer journey or designing ideal user experiences. But for Operations teams, we have to not only consider our external customers, but our internal ones as well.</p><p><br></p><p>On this episode, we speak with Maor Ezer, the SVP of Global Marketing at WalkMe, who spends every day thinking about those internal customers and more specifically, what he calls, the employee user experience.</p><p><br></p><p>In our conversation, Maor explains the emergence of the employee user experience, we break down the triangle of players inside companies designing that experience, and why the ROI of digital transformation is all about the outcomes you might not have been looking for at first.</p><p><br></p><p>Like this episode?&nbsp;<a href="" rel="noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">Be sure to leave a ⭐️⭐️⭐️⭐️⭐️⭐️&nbsp;review</a>&nbsp;and share the pod with your friends! You can connect with Sean on Twitter @Seany_Biz and @DriftPodcasts.</p>

Sean Lane: Hey everyone. Welcome to Operations, the show where we look under the hood of companies in hypergrowth. My name is Sean Lane. There's plenty of content out there about optimizing the customer journey, about designing ideal user experiences, workflows. But for operations teams, external customers is only one group that we have to spend some time thinking about. The other is our group of internal customers, the sellers, the marketers, the customer success folks that are all the end users of the tools that we buy and manage within operations. I recently spoke with someone who spends every day thinking about those internal customers and more specifically, what he calls the employee user experience. That someone and our guest today, is Maor Ezer, the SVP of Global Marketing at WalkMe. WalkMe, which went public in June of 2021, is a digital adoption platform that was founded in 2011. In our conversation, Maor explains the emergence of the employee user experience. We break down the triangle of players inside companies that are designing that experience and why the ROI of digital transformation is all about the outcomes that you might not have been looking for in the first place. To start though, let's dive into that world of those internal customers. I asked Maor how the focus on the internal customer experience has evolved over the years.

Maor Ezer: I think that's where the world has completely flipped in the last couple of years since COVID hit. I don't want to be the one saying COVID hit, there's a market change, but there is, right? Organizations are figuring out that spending money on software, that's great. We are doing it great today. The challenge has become exponential because it used to be that software acquisition was very simple, right? There was some CIO that made a deal with Oracle, gets trickled down to everyone and that's that. Today, not only is it decentralized and the organizations are taking control of their stack, right? Marketing is a very sophisticated organization. Marketing carries a lot of technology today in order to do their job. Marketing ops is a very up and coming and very smart individual that needs to navigate technology and understand marketing. But we'll get to that in a few. So not only has it decentralized, but it's also with product led products, you're starting to see shadow IT come in and there's just a huge consumption of technology. And with that consumption, I think a lot of people forget that the customer of all that technology is your internal employees. So over the last decade plus, we've perfected the cut, not perfected, I don't want to exaggerate, but we've worked very hard to optimize the customer experience, like you're saying. Started building different workflows around analytics, understanding AB tools, testing, knowing UI, playing around with different elements. And we've always put the customer in the center, the customer is coming, you got to stop everything. And the world has done a great job, it's come a long way. Is it fully there yet? No, but it's going to come a long way. But internally, there's suddenly this huge storm of applications and we rely on it to do our day to day job. And on the flip side, you've got the world going crazy and everybody's working from home. Global companies, the workforce, the attention span has gone down. We just want to get our job done. So it's kind of clashing, these two worlds are clashing, we're implementing a lot. And the audience is becoming even more scattered and even more unreceptive to change. And they expect a perfect experience. They get it on consumer apps. And it created a huge problem. And I've been talking a lot about this in past interviews and some videos we did on our company events. But you have to start thinking about your... I don't want to call it employee experience, because that sometimes talks about HR related stuff, but let's call it employee user experience. Why aren't you thinking about your employees the same way you're thinking about your customers? Because we know at the end of the day that even if I've gone through the trouble of implementing all this expensive software and I'm doing this change management, that's going to completely change the way my organization works. At the end of the rainbow, if my employees don't use it, the whole digital transformation or whatever fancy term we can use didn't work. So you got to connect thinking about connecting the users to the workflows, that's where kind of my thinking is at.

Sean Lane: Maor's mantra couldn't be more clear to me. Think about your employees the same way you think about your customers. Otherwise, you're going to end up with some incredibly expensive pieces of software sitting on the shelf collecting dust, Maor's term for what I refer to as internal customers is employee user experience. And look, when you're in hypergrowth, of course your actual customers are going to come first. It's easy to look at their problems and prioritize them over your internal team's problems every single time. But when does that internal employee user experience become an unavoidable gap that you just have to close? I asked Maor if there's a particular tipping point that companies reach when this does become true for them. And he told me, it's been a long journey to get here.

Maor Ezer: We started WalkMe about 10 years ago, maybe plus. And the idea was very simple, let's help with website navigation. We literally sold it online for a few bucks and that was the whole idea. And then suddenly, customers, a year in not even that far, started coming in and saying," hold on, this is great. It's really helping my customers, but can you help me on Salesforce? I got a huge rollout, my training team is flying around the world and they're trying to implement it. People are not receptive, they're changing, they're forgetting everything after a day." And then we had this aha moment where we said," okay, the companies are literally asking, it's not even how we founded the company." We pivoted to the internal apps very far fast. And with that, the whole invention of digital adoption, what was created throughout the years and just more and more demand. So you're asking when is that critical moment? I think we already saw it like eight, nine years ago and we're seeing it today at a huge scale where they're basically saying, I can't invest enough in technology and not see the ROI. So you're seeing it both from an operational side where the ops people, the director of sales ops, marketing, HRIS, these amazing people changing how organizations are consuming software. They were the first ones to realize, they knocked at our door and said," we need a solution, we need digital adoption." And you're seeing the intent go up through the years in all aspects, in search and reading materials and coming into the calls more defined. People used to come in and say," I need help with onboarding, I need help with training, I need help with features and getting them into market into my employees." But suddenly, you're seeing," I need help with digital adoption." And not only that, the problem is very clear for the operations level. But now, you're seeing executives come and say," listen guys, I realize that I'm spending and betting my entire strategy on this digital strategy or digital transformation or change management, however you want to call it. How do I ensure ROI?" Now they're already understanding that the user, what is very probably common to us, the user is at the heart of the success of all their initiatives. So it's not just one aha moment where there's X amount of people or there's X amount of features. It's just a general realization. I have this very simple graph, I won't be able to show it, but it shows how much money is spent on software and until the go- live stage. So you choose the software, you choose maybe a partner to go and implement it. You spend the time with the internal teams, you build the workflows and everything and then, go- live and you move on to the next project. Now we're seeing companies understand that the go- live point in time is even more important than the thought process before. And that's where they're suddenly striving to be more agile companies, continuous transformation, agile. You're starting to hear all these things that from other places of the business. So I think the realization is broad now, you're starting to see it at all levels of the company. And from the directors of ops all the way through the CIO and the CHRO. I couldn't even tell you that I have one buyer, we sell to the entire C-suite. We sell to the entire ops line of business enablement, it's a very broad use case. So I think...

Sean Lane: But they're all incentivized for that stuff to work because those tools working means that the output of the reason why they bought that tool is hopefully making the company work better, more efficient, whatever is the reason they bought that particular tool. I want to come back to that ROI conversation, but you kind of harped on these different folks that are getting involved in the actual content that is being put in front of these folks, designing that employee user experience as you described it, right? And so, can you talk to me a little bit about, I would imagine ops folks are critical in that, like you said, how much of that is them thinking about the workflow and then is there somebody else that's developing the content? Who are the different players that actually make this thing come to life so that when you do put that point in time training in front of somebody, it's there at the right moment and it's the right stuff?

Maor Ezer: It's coming down a triangle of people. You're seeing always a beautiful relationship around digital adoption between the ops and IT. They're both very vested individuals that are acquiring this and have a reason for it and see the value. But you're also seeing some kind of C level, V level individual get involved as well from the buying and all the way through the implementation. We have some companies who acquire what we call our point solution. I just implemented Salesforce or I just implemented Marketo. I'm very interested in my users onboarding quickly, making sure that they're interacting with the software, getting through the processes and ensuring adoption. You're seeing the ops people take ownership. We actually have a digital adoption institute that we offer courses. We teach them how to build with the product and they can take ownership themselves. You're seeing enablement, L& D people take ownership about those experiences. They're starting to think about experiences for the employee and they're owning it. And we also, throughout the years we've created, well a profession was created, I can't take the credit for it. We of course, help in any way we can, but you're seeing DAP professionals. So the companies that are more serious about digital adoption and want to take it out of the point solution into a strategic solution platform, that are investing in a few applications all the way up to the entire organization. They're putting in a center of excellence and they have people that are called DAP professionals. We already have, last time I checked it was 4, 600 people changed their titles on LinkedIn to that-

Sean Lane: Amazing.

Maor Ezer: Working professionals without WalkMe employees, that's amazing. It's a movement. There are people that have literally dropped their jobs, learnt the technical skill and are working at it in Fortune 500 companies. So they would be the best owner because that's someone who wakes up in the morning and all they think about is, how do I understand what's going on in SaID application, SaID workflow or whatever, or my digital stack? How do I go and take action immediately and how do I deliver the best experience to my employees?

Sean Lane: You're riding the wave of a meaningful category when entirely new professions emerge as a result of that category's existence. Digital Adoption Professionals or DAP as Maor calls it, makes total sense. We spend all this money on software and companies are coming to the realization that implementing these tools is only the beginning, whether it's operations enablement, IT or digital adoption professionals. Organizations need folks who are committed to making these tools work and creating that best employee user experience possible. So where can folks like that draw inspiration for what the good version of digital adoption looks like? Maor's the expert, so I asked him.

Maor Ezer: What we're seeing the most, even more than WalkMe, is we're seeing the community of these DAP professionals and other professionals and ops and all that. They're coming in into the WalkMe community and they're building what we call solution accelerators. So they're basically bringing in together with us, we're taking knowledge of hundreds and thousands of implementations on different famous applications or even all the way through edge cases. And they're building templates of what good looks like. And then, the next one coming in can just press a button and they launch what good looks like. They're taking the power of the community and they're implementing it in their organization in minutes, days, doesn't matter. And I think that's for me the whole wow around the best practices and what we've learned. We've done hundreds of workday implementations and Salesforce and Concur and SAP, we've seen that heavy enterprise use and how to get it done right. And also, it's fun. We experiment a lot, every product we put out to market, we try it first internally like you're saying. So for example, we're releasing now, next week we're going to release our new Workstation, it's a desktop app. It's a complete next level thinking about what we're talking and how to put one central hub for the employee that they can start. It's like you start your journey on the internet and Google. So you start your enterprise journey for any app on Workstation. So we try it out, we see how our employees are doing, how they're using it. We bring in a couple of our customers in and then we share the best practices. The fun piece is it's all new. This is not, hey, change this type of software to this type of software. We can give you a little bit more. We're making up a category here, and we're making it up together with these individuals, ops leaders, DAP professionals, our customers. Our partners are contributing and building all sorts of solutions, so it's fun. I hope that answers your question.

Sean Lane: It does, and the thing that makes me think about within the folks in inside of this community is these folks have to have a combination of both a technical acumen as well as, enough business context to connect that technical acumen to a real internal problem that some of those employees might have with their user experience. And that's not an easy combination to find. And so-

Maor Ezer: Not at all.

Sean Lane: How are you seeing folks identify the right type of people who can bring those two things together and actually solve the business problems? Because there are plenty of people on either side of that, but there aren't that many that can do both.

Maor Ezer: Sean, I love all aspects of marketing obviously. I'm a very hardcore, I love product marketing, I love strategy, I love positioning, I love messaging. I love demand generation, I love community building. I really like all aspects. And I think, let's stop for a second, give a shout out to the operations teams. Really, not just because of this podcast, but I think really, hand on heart. I think this profession has gone a long way in the last few years. The hardest role to fill, by the way, it's become right up there with product marketing. It's a new thing, not everybody knows the art.

Sean Lane: It's an art. You got to be like you're saying, you got to be technical, you got to think about the user, you got to understand your profession. If you're doing sales or if you're doing marketing, you got to understand the funnels and you have to be super innovative.

Maor Ezer: There are tons of solutions. I was chatting yesterday with a friend who has a company in the data space and he's telling me like," Wow, I didn't believe marketing ops was this complex." Of course, it is, look at what we're implementing. We're implementing chatbots and different systems and automation and it's the edge of technology, of enterprise technology, starts a lot in marketing or in sales ops. So I think it's a great time to be in ops and to be in L& D as well. Because these roles have evolved now, to think about this problem that you're saying. Thinking about what does the user want to see? I'm not just a technical facilitator here. I am now almost a product manager of the organization, right? There I say, so I think it's an exciting role and exciting time. And I see the more sophisticated individuals, they're challenging themselves, even. Their day to day work and saying," No, hold on, I want to deliver the experience." If I don't deliver the experience, it doesn't work.

Sean Lane: And I think if you take that kind of product manager metaphor even a little bit further, and again, this could be through WalkMe or other means, but it doesn't mean putting that enablement inside of a wiki post somewhere that no one's ever going to read, right? It's about finding opportunities within their existing workflows to provide that enablement I think, so that they don't have to go searching for it or they don't ever get stuck. You talk about trying to remove friction from those journeys the same way.

Maor Ezer: It's not about learning, it's about knowing. How much would you pay?

Sean Lane: Say more about that.

Maor Ezer: Let me give you an example. How much would you pay to learn a new language to learn Japanese? You would pay now, I don't know, maybe you speak Japanese, but let's say you don't, right?

Sean Lane: I don't.

Maor Ezer: So I would love to speak Japanese. So how much would I pay to speak Japanese? I can download an app, I can take a private tutor. I'm paying a hundred bucks here or a hundred bucks there. Maybe I'll learn a few words in Japanese. How much would you pay to wake up tomorrow and know how to speak Japanese? You'd pay$50, 000 right now, that's the beautiful piece. That's what we always say about digital adoption, it's not about learning, it's about knowing. A lot of people have called it like the GPS, they give the analogy to the GPS and autonomous cars. It's the GPS, I don't, don't want to learn your platform. I don't want to sit and read my confluence page and understand how to-

Sean Lane: Through documentation.

Maor Ezer: I just want to do it and get my job done. Sales people on average have now 13 applications they need to go through from prospecting to close one. They might have been great, I understand why each one was implemented to optimize the process. But let's be honest, a salesperson wants to get on the phone, close the deal, and when the deal is done, they want their commission and paycheck. They don't want to do your 13 software applications. And that's where you start thinking about challenging the ways of technology consumption and implementation. Not just for the sake of putting the product in, but for the sake of making the experience and the workflow come to get the job done.

Sean Lane: It's not about learning, it's about knowing. This mindset shift is so powerful. We talk at Drift all the time about removing friction. And that's exactly what Maor is talking about here. End users today don't want to learn your new tool, they don't want to read the Wiki post or watch the video. They just want it to work or for you to do it for them. Get them to the end result, the outcome. That's all they really want so that they can get back to doing their job or what they'd rather be doing in the first place, like selling. Now look, clearly I'm a believer in what Maor is sharing here, but like any investment, there will be skeptics in your organization about digital adoption or even enablement of any kind. So whether you're looking at WalkMe or a tool like it, how has Maor learned over the years to articulate and nail down the ROI of digital adoption?

Maor Ezer: But the value, we saw it evolve with our customers and the use cases that they're using. So to give you the simple answer, I'll give the simple one and then I'll give them more sophisticated one. We ran a study with Forrester Research to ask exactly that. Go do an objective study, we don't influence. Interview some of our customers, come back with what's called a total economic report, the TEI, that's what it's called. And they came back and they said," it's in the hundreds of percent of ROI." But the interesting thing about the report that it detailed, how the use cases keep growing throughout time. So maybe someone starts with us on onboarding and then, he continues and then that evolves into customer experience and that evolves into employee productivity. And you start seeing the use cases grow over time, both in ROI and pile on more use cases. So with our more veteran customers, were seeing them transition from, I can just save you time on training or I can save you time on support cost, which is a very easy thing to articulate the value. I just reduced X amount of tickets, Y amount of hours, made your experience more self service. I can really bring it down to a number in a second. And you're starting to see it impact a lot more use cases or many more use cases. And now, we've moved into something we're calling outcome driven transformation where you've got to start thinking about, I'm not just doing a transformation or a change or some digital transformation. But I'm thinking about the outcome, I'm not buying Drift and putting in a chatbot just to make my website navigation better. I'm buying it because I want to achieve ROI, right? But not just ROI from leads on the website and better conversions, that's what I might have thought. I'm actually buying it because I'm standing in front of my CMO and I'm saying," let me help drive pipeline up." So the value went from better experience on the website to better lead conversion to pipeline in the company. And now, we're speaking about pipeline and that CMO is going to their CEO and saying," hold on, I'm going to help the company reduce cost because I'm getting more out of my existing leads, existing traffic, and I'm going to help drive revenue this quarter this year." And now, we're talking about business outcomes. And that's the interesting thing that we discovered throughout the years. A couple of years ago, people started talking to us about," this is really meeting my operational efficiency. I'm driving cost down, I'm saving money for the company. This is helping me increase revenue. I'm ramping up sales reps much faster. I'm getting processes. I have better data integrity, I've got better forecasting, I'm running faster, I can get to the ARR faster." And now, we try to connect the use case that you acquire even for one app and through many applications, all the way to the business outcome. And have our customers think about the outcome before they even go, before they even start.

Sean Lane: Begin with the outcomes in mind. The teams that can translate amorphous blobs of initiatives into bite size, metric driven goals are the ones that are going to be outcome driven. On this show, we always seek out role models and try to learn from people who have been there done that. I realized as Maor was describing these different tools and use cases with such specificity, that he and the team at WalkMe are perfectly positioned to be this repository of so many actual workflows and actual use cases across a wide range of tools. It turns out I was right, but the library that they have, amasst is more vast than I could have imagined.

Maor Ezer: Today, in general, not even WalkMe. All about leveraging best practices from the common knowledge. And we've spoken about this before with the solution accelerators. This is where we take that common knowledge and we try to serve it to the world and the whole thing becomes much faster and then we get more knowledge and we understand better and we optimize it. Absolutely, so that's the whole idea behind our community and sharing and solution accelerators. They've actually resulted in much faster go- live, much faster value realization, that's the power. Because no one's seen hundreds and thousands of implementations on Salesforce, right? But we have, and we know how people are actually clicking.

Sean Lane: And to your point about outcomes, just give me the answers to the test, Maor. I just want to know how company of my size in my industry has rolled out their uses of Salesforce before And tell me that, and I'll take it from there.

Maor Ezer: But it's even a little bit more, right? I challenge all the ops people that are listening unrelated to WalkMe. You're putting in software, try to think how it impacts the company. Try to think about what you're doing right now, when you gave the example with Drift, right? I'm solving a problem on the website, which is mission critical and I'm going to my boss and I'm convincing him, I got to drive conversions on the website. But try to think how it impacts the business outcomes of the organization, they're not too many. What does an organization want to do? Reduce cost, drive revenue, mitigate risk. And there are a few more that trickle down, that cascade from that. How am I helping? Am I driving employee productivity? That's great, right? Am I driving revenue? Think about the KPI, the big one, the outcome that you're going for when you buy and implement the next piece of software or one of your existing pieces of software, and try to put that as a personal KPI. How do I tie the conversation? Because you know what? You're one, going to get to that KPI and you're going to make a huge impact on the organization. You might not buy something that you can't tie it to the big outcome and suddenly doesn't look that important. And if you get to that KPI, you're the hero. You'll stand in front of your entire leadership and say," listen, I not only did this and did my job very well, but I drove the company forward."

Sean Lane: Before we go, at the end of each show, we're going to ask each guest the same lightning round of questions. Ready? Here we go. Best book you've read in the last six months.

Maor Ezer: Yeah, that's a good one. I got to give a shout out to someone that I actually read the book and even hired afterwards. There's a book called Humanizing B2B. It's an interesting take by an individual named Paul Cash from Rooster Punk. It's an interesting take on that exactly about thinking of B2B a little bit different to those of you who work in that field. It's a marketing related book, but it's a really great read. It's fun, it's interesting. So I'll give a shout to that.

Sean Lane: All right, we'll have to check it out. All right. Normally I ask the person their favorite part about working in ops, and so you've been incredibly kind to ops folks during this conversation. So I'll ask you your favorite part about working with ops.

Maor Ezer: First of all, I love ops. I can sit for, that to me, sitting with my director of ops here is to me, what gives me the ideas for a year. We've been thinking, we've been working for a year and a half now on multi- touch attribution. It's something, for example, that hasn't been solved. People can say it has been solved, but it's not even near. And you can't look at marketing in 2022 and think about the different channels and what ROI they bring. You must look at the mixed bag of touchpoints, right? There's a famous comic of this guy seeing an ad on a billboard than seeing an ad on TV, then seeing an ad on the newspaper and then seeing it on mobile clicking. And then the company sits in the boardroom," Oh, that makes sense, we're going to invest all of our money in mobile advertising." No, it's the mix. So I could sit for hours and talk about multi- touch attribution and thinking about the different processes. So for me, ops is an innovator, for me, ops is someone who takes the company to the next level. It's the foundation to a lot of the things we do. And it's one of the most interesting roles really. Not saying it for, I just really can dive in. These are people who think they go deeper in and they drive the business at the end of the day. So my favorite part of ops is the innovation, is trying new things. Marketing, for example, has got to reinvent itself every year and a half, every few, that's it. That's the reality, I'm sorry. That's the word we live in and that's the pace it's going. So as a person that comes from product and from technology and innovation, I'm an entrepreneur in my background, there's no more fun than that. You sit and you invent how it's going to be. I'm literally playing around here with APIs that are bringing different touch points that I set up and understand everything, and I'm connecting it to an AI data platform forward ai, and I'm putting it together and I'm trying to understand multi- touch and how much more fun can it be?

Sean Lane: All right, This one might be hard for you then. Flip side, least favorite part about working with ops.

Maor Ezer: When you get to the scale that WalkMe is, you have to consider a lot of processes. And processes are what help us scale the business. You cannot exist without processes, they help you scale the business. They help you go faster, they help you not go faster, but it helps you go up. And sometimes, these processes can take a while to one crack and think of how they look. And second, could be a little bit more administrative and can kind of drive and can take a lot of time. So that, would be my least favorite part of working, not with ops, but the ops part. I love working with ops.

Sean Lane: Someone who impacted you getting to the job you have today.

Maor Ezer: Ah, that's a great one. So that, would definitely be my boss, Rafael Sweary, he's our president and co- founder. I had a mobile AI startup in the in- app engagement side. It was a beautiful product called Abbi. io, and we were doing great. And then 10 months in, we had money, it was all going good. We met Rafi, and we heard about WalkMe and he explained and everything. And I just walked out of the room and I said," these guys nailed the product market fit." And I saw it in scale, we were a lot smaller than today. And through the years, he's thinking about strategy, developing a category. We're creating a category that's not a trivial task. I get asked about this every week. Some company calls me," should we create a category?" That's a lot of work, we've been doing it for five years and we just now are getting market guides around DAP and what we've been doing. It's a hard path. So Rafi's been a great leader and a great thinker of value first. It's not trivial thinking of value first. You want me to give a quick example of what that means?

Sean Lane: Sure.

Maor Ezer: I always tell this in pricing sessions. I do a lot of the pricing here at WalkMe for the past few years and the pricing models. Let's say, I walk into a store and I want to buy some boots. So I'm coming in with a budget, I want to spend a hundred bucks. I might want brown boots, I might want them from leather, I might want a brand I don't know, Blundstone or whatever the trend is. And I'm going to buy the boots and I'm buying and I'm happy, and I get out of the store. I bought features, I didn't buy value. Now, they could have sold me on a brand, they could have told me a story, but I've still bought features. Now let's say, after three young kids and five and a half years at work, I go on a weekend trip with my wife to London and I'm happy and we're finally going out. We got everything set up and we get there and it starts raining like crazy, now my shoes are ruined. Now I walk into the boots shop and I'm buying not the boots, I'm buying my weekend with my wife. I'm buying the real value. If the salesperson is very smart and picks up on that, he's selling me the value of, don't ruin your weekend until you got the kids with the grandmother and you got babysitters and you got the whole thing set up. Put in the extra$ 500 because this is super comfortable and you can walk all day. And understanding that value goes back to your ROI conversation. I think that's the lesson I learned and so, it impacted me a lot.

Sean Lane: That's awesome. All right, last one, I promise. One piece of advice for people who want to have your job someday.

Maor Ezer: Don't be afraid, challenge, innovate, understand what one drives the organization. Second, what drives the persona, you have to really understand how human beings think. Everyone is different. The what's in it for me is very different. I'm speaking to you right now, you have an agenda, you have a podcast for said company. I have to speak, I have to understand who is your audience, so really start by thinking about that. When we started this call, all I thought was not, what am I going to answer, what are the questions. I didn't read them even a second before. I just thought, what is Sean doing? Who are the audience who listen to the podcast? What are they interested in? And what are the main messages that I want to say? So innovate, think, understand the audience. Don't be afraid, take risks. It's fun, it's exciting. I started here five and a half years ago. I didn't know what my journey looks like, it wasn't my plan to go and specifically manage the marketing department. And here I am today and it's been super exciting, and that would be my tip. And specifically in marketing, understand the different facets. Marketing is a very rare organization. Probably everybody's going to say," nah, we're like this as well." But it's a very rare organization because it's multidisciplinary, it's not one type of a couple individuals who do the same job. Every single person that I can walk here around the office and I can go speak with a product marketer, I can go speak with the automations person, the ops, the content, the design, the customer marketing, the PR, it's all very different, it's different worlds. Learn them, learn how it integrates together. And when you see the full picture, that's when you know can get at my job.

Sean Lane: Thanks so much to Maor for joining us on this week's episode of Operations. And thanks to May from the WalkMe team for helping to set up the interview. If you like what you heard from this week, make sure you're subscribed to our show. A new episode of Operations comes out every other Friday. And also, if you learned something today or from any of our episodes, make sure you leave us a review on Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts, six star reviews only. All right, that's going to do it for me. Thanks so much for listening. We'll see you next time.


There is plenty of content out there about optimizing the customer journey or designing ideal user experiences. But for Operations teams, we have to not only consider our external customers, but our internal ones as well.

On this episode, we speak with Maor Ezer, the SVP of Global Marketing at WalkMe, who spends every day thinking about those internal customers and more specifically, what he calls, the employee user experience.

In our conversation, Maor explains the emergence of the employee user experience. We break down the triangle of players inside companies designing that experience, and why the ROI of digital transformation is all about the outcomes you might not have been looking for at first.

Key Points:

  • (1:32) How the focus on internal customers has evolved over the years
  • (6:02) The journey to closing the employee-user experience gap
  • (11:10) The triangle of people that make digital adoption work
  • (14:20) What “good” digital adoption looks like
  • (17:21) How to hire for digital adoption enablers
  • (22:56) How to articulate the ROI of digital adoption
  • (30:04) Operations lightning round

Like this episode? Be sure to leave a ⭐️⭐️⭐️⭐️⭐️⭐️ review and share the pod with your friends! You can connect with Sean on Twitter @Seany_Biz and @DriftPodcasts.